Undead blog that should have been buried long ago, but the stats are still much better than the editor's own blog
Sunday, November 27, 2011
Syvret petiton
Ian Evans is seeking support for a petition to the UK Parliament about Stuart Syvret's imprisonment. I think he is bang to rights, but I know some of my readers are more sympathetic to him, so here is the link:- http://therightofreply.blogspot.com/2011/11/john-hemming-mp-succeeded-where-i.html
I think we need to move away from Syvret and Ian Evans should pay his taxes like everyone else has to. Until this man can see that if we all gave up paying tax which would cause anarchy, I cannot take him seriously. I asked him a question as to whether he had alternative arrangements in place for his old age as at some point he will need the services of our hospital or perhaps our residential homes and as a non tax payer does he really have the right to these benefits. He didn't reply.
Since 2008 the JDA should have been backing Syvret or at least supporting him on the sidelines.
The JDA team were supported by the Joseph Rowntree Organisation. Can you tell me what good the JDA can claim to have done and what Syvret has done wrong?
Please post this with an answer to my question, thank you.
On the contrary I believe all people would pay a certain amount of tax. The richest people in the world basically decide how much tax they are going to pay so why should this right not be extended to the poorer members of society who actually need the money more?
The question is how much tax do you think is reasonable?
Seeing what the government of Jersey does with it I would say that most people think that what they steal from us is most unreasonable.
Sorry,but have I missed something here.Why would someone ask these questions?I am not surprised that he did'nt reply.If Social Security are paying him benefits,then yes he is entitled to them.Why would he also have to put in place alternative arrangements for his long term care?.At the end of the day there are thousands of people who are claiming benefits for whatever reason and I trust Social Security to distribute as neccessary.camelia
Syvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court.
Anonymous #3:
Syvret not only wouldn't work with the JDA but bitterly opposed it. To your questions; the JDA did not achieve much at all, which made leaving, when Unite bought it, an easy call. Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels, an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses, dereliction of duty and doing more harm and disruption to the progressive side of Jersey politics in practice than he did to the conservatives.
"Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels, an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses"
By the same kind of ruthless, unscrupulous police work your pals Graham and Lennie nailed Curtis Warren with. And yes, I do agree some cops have a case to answer regarding their own parts in the Syvret affair.
Anonymous #5:
An intriguing point. We can all think of examples of Jersey courts dispensing the finest justice money can buy. However, defendants are too compromised themselves to make that judgement on the court and thus excuse themselves from its jurisdiction. Civilisation as we know it could not function if they could.
A petition to get Syvret released is not only silly but doomed for failure before it even started. When are his remaining supporters going to face the fact that he is no longer a States Member after failing to get elected twice and he is guilty of Contempt of Court? Not forgetting his attitude towards the Community Service order which was just plain crazy. Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread as the saying goes.
Syvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court.]
You obviously haven't read the John Hemming petition, the issue is not Stuart's contempt of court, it is dealing with the fundamental issue that could force others to do the act in the same manner as Stuart.
All dissidents in Jersey are dissected into minute pieces and tarred and feathered by each other until none have remaining strength or credibility to move forward. Some are adamant about working solely within the system, others advocate a Gandhi approach to civil disobedience, and then there are unions...
If one individual blogger has allied with others whom you personally disagree with, should his important positive efforts on your tiny island be impeached?
In a larger world, these dissidents and progressives would never waste their time fighting each other over what is mostly petty and egotistical squabbling. The oligarchy must enjoy this immensely. In the meantime, there is no political outrage over the warrantless arrest, search and seizure of a politician's constituent materials because he didn't make nice with the others. There are such shocking issues at state in Jersey, and principle must begin to trump personality.
Looks like you're letting personal feelings trump logic.
Everything I've read from Stuart makes sense, I understand his motives and tactics, and it doesn't appear to be too difficult to understand. What I can't fathom is why other people have trouble understanding.
Its time the dissenting in Jersey united together. If only we could agree to differ on Syvret and unite on everything else.
The problem of course, is that those dissenters who didn't support Syvret (esp. those with political support and those affiliated to non-oligarch political groups) should have been more intelligent. Back in 2008 this was our moment(us being victims and ordinary people), and sadly Stuart and all the ordinary folk and especially the abused and oppressed folk..... were very badly let down..... very badly indeed. At the time, Stuart was working under great pressure, meeting people after dark, reading volumes of material, running the biggest States Dept against a team of plotting civil servants who should have been supporting him, denying him access to dept. records, changing records, holding secret meetings to protect their job / reputation and then walking off with golden handshakes. If you don't side with Syvret, then you side with them and their mates. Here's a simple one. Did you ever vote Syvret? Did you support his stance on things such as toxic ash or LLP? How come you turned your back when he was doing something he understood about so much more than you? Have you ever thought he may be right? Even if you think he was wrong when it came to 2008 and child abuse, would you not be doing your fellow dissidents more of a favour by not speaking out against him and standing to vote against him? Derrrrr! A week is a long time in politics but thanks to people like Rico, Lenny, etc. the Syvret thing is being kept alive. More and more will grasp it eventually. Stuart is a man of principle. When those who turned away, turn back again, then we can unite at last.
As I know a number of people who are taking action against Syvret for what they say as writing lies about them it is impossible to get behind him or any other blogger that shows support for him still. If things are not true then they are flawed and he hasn't behaved normal for a long time anyhow.
I don't know about being infiltrated. There were about 8 people in from the start or soon after who did almost all the work, and hundreds of people who paid their subs, then sat back and left us to it. I thought we were runing it rather than infiltrating it.
there is some truth in the complaints about the fragmented opposition in Jersey. However, there is not a single alternative to unite behind. Red is not the only not-dark-blue colour, however much reds would like to bounce greens, yellows and pale blues into being their troops. And Syvret certainly is not the leader to unite us all.
It is not necessary to unite behind Stuart as a leader. It is necessary for other progressives to avoid piling on like dogs when he is down. The oligarchy is only too glad to do that without all the extra help, and the constant obsession with whether or not an individual should agree with Stuart's every tactic only diminishes the effectiveness of his absolutely extraordinary efforts.
Why not pick your battles more selectively, and in line with loftier goals?
Stuart is likelier to achieve outside support for democratic reforms than anyone else. He is relentless in his pursuit of justice for the abuse survivors, and has almost a half million site visitors to his blog. We are from all around the globe and we make contacts on his behalf. Only someone as purpose driven and uncompromising as Stuart could accomplish so much. Such a strong personality will always be paired with a difficult nature but should his flaws be an obsession of other progressives, when it's really a destructive clash of egos? Why should Stuart be responsible for also making himself agreeably sweet to all, or for addressing the leadership vacuum? Or selecting only socially acceptable forms of civil disobedience, much less Jersey's absence of political party affiliation?
Just because he is not always an agreeable person, it would be too much to ask his fellow progressives to support him. But that does not mean they should join the anti-democratic forces in attacking him, because a democratic Jersey has nothing to gain and so much more to lose if he fails.
But Syvret has been the most popular leader and father of the house- (outdated expression IMO) So he has the credentials to be a popular long term leader. And perhaps if he had been supported when he was bombarded with all that was going on, then, more likely, things would have been alot lot better for the abuse victims. After all, if the AG hadn't sat on the cases, if investigations into bones and findings were allowed to be concluded, if the truth was attained, then justice would be done and be seen to being done. Instead the victims have been re-vitimised by the state ....again. (very common in abuse literature, attrition rates on rape,etc. etc. ) Stuart was in a good position to help, and look what they did to him. Put down his Christmas speech, turf him out, give him a hard time, ransack his stuff (without a warrent)and so on. Now how would you pick yourself up from all that? OK so he may have named a few names, (those of the civil service for their shoddy work, not suspects) but would you be perfect under such strain? Probably not. Are you capable of digesting all the literature he does? Do you write/ speak in public so well? Have your predictions been as accurate? All said and done, Stuart is a long shot above what has ever been around in my 25+ years adult time in Jersey. Im naturally assuming you are not pro-oli. Bailhache only got more votes than SS record because the established family networks were called in and population has gone up. His agenda is not good for ordinary folk. Then there is the media who mis represent the non oli people...... time and time again. Have you read Treasure Islands? There is a pattern of gvt. behavior in oli states.......its oppressive. Stuart was anti all that. Really, Ug, don't you get it? Please stop being so anti-Stuart because he represented people. people whose lives have been screwed up by the authorities who were supposed to care for them. He may not have wished to join the JDA, so what, the voting pattern of Stu + the JDA is virtually the same so what did you have to loose? .......The big picture.
It is a pity that IsThisJersey have deleted the thread in which Syvret declared war on the JDA at a time when it still had enough momentum to have been a coordinating force for the non-olis. It is really hard to see someone making spiteful and malicious attacks on a project you are working hard for as a hero of your own side.
Stuart only has his own agenda at heart. He used the report about nurse M only when it suited him. That report was in his possession and he had spoken to the head of the original police investigation a few years before its release on his blog. Although he denied or should I say he didn't recall that conversation .
The JDA was never going to change anything, get real! Ask yourself why Stuart 'attacked' the JDA - is there any chance you could understand his position?
No matter how much you try and excuse Stuart's behaviour in recent years, or ask others to overlook his shortcomings, he unfortunately has a history of not being able to work with others, and being unable to accept others views that do not tally exactly with his own.
You may be looking for a leader to hang your hat on, but I don't think Stuart, whatever his positive attributes, is that man, as he would not be able to help himself alienating, or antagonising, others.
He may well have been the most popular politician in days gone by, however his showing at the last election proved that his behaviour in recent years has cost him his reputation in the eyes of the general public.
Of course, your message is demonstrative of the fact that, amongst others, you are willing to overlook whatever he says, does, or has done in recent years because of his longer term achievements, or because you choose to interpret his behaviour as indicative of his strident resistance to ‘the system’ in Jersey, and that obviously is your choice. As the voting public have demonstrated however, you appear to be in a shrinking minority.
Whatever his attributes, his antagonistic, argumentative, insulting, and most recently, simply baffling, ways mean that he no longer enjoys sufficient support to achieve anything in our Government, or as the Totem of the progressive movement.
I’m sorry, but recent months seem to prove that there are not enough people who feel the way you do, and because of this, he is yesterday’s man ,and the sooner certain people realise this, the sooner they can throw their weight behind another more suitable candidate to take the progressive cause forward in this island.
"He used the report about nurse M only when it suited him." Rubbish. He knew exactly how much trouble he'd be in if he published it, and simply couldn't face it until he had no other option and nothing much to lose. It took courage to do that, and I for one don't blame him if it took a while to build up to it.
What I get from reading these comments is that the name Syvret is so polarized that very few are looking at what is really going on. Mr Ugh, have you been sitting in the Royal or Magistrate court of Jersey listning to the facts or evidence first hand? If not, how can you form an opinion of what is really going on. Is one gleaning your information from the local media? Was not Syvret's human rights violated as soon as the police entered his partners house? Do Human Rights only belong to some? Are you saying the police can kick your front door in tomorrow with no warrent search the house find nothing then take you to court on something they only found by kicking your front door down and weren't even searching for? Are you saying that's ok for Syvret and everyone else or are you saying it's ok for Syvret and no one else? No illegal raid no court case. What came first the Chicken or the egg or was it the human before the right? If anyone has a problem with what Syvret has published then i'm sure they will have him in court soon and disprove his claims. The trick of hiding the real facts behind the name are gone...
Well he has done more for the abuse victims than ANY other politician, he's more environmentally aware than any other politician EVER and he's done more for the 99% than any other politician. And he is braver than any other too. Perhaps I am more able than you to forgive any slip up he's made but then I also see the COCK UPS that the olis have made and I think his errors pale into insignificance. Regrettably those who have abandoned him have let alot of people down. Unless you lot can be a little more forgiving towards him and us lot forgive you, there will always be a divided opposition in Jersey and that's just the way the oli like it. Aren't you clever.
"Syvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court"
I said;
How did he become to be in court was it a Police Raid?
You said;
"Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels"
Such a shame TLS went for the Strike out option don't you think? Everyone could have had their say under oath with all the evidence on show. TLS wanted a strike out. TLS and his COM tried to do the same with the Committee of Enquiry again when all the evidence and testimony can come out - oh but no strike out it is.
"Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels, an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses"
How was he caught again?
You said
Rico:
"By the same kind of ruthless, unscrupulous police work your pals Graham and Lennie nailed Curtis Warren with. And yes, I do agree some cops have a case to answer regarding their own parts in the Syvret affair."
You see I don't get what your saying.
You are saying that the police work was ruthless & unscrupulous yet that's ok because it's Syvret and you don't like him. Again, Curtis Warren, even if a nasty piece of work must also have rights, YES?
You let yourself down a little with the childish remark about referring to Lenny and Graham as pals of mine. I have not seen or read one document that has put Graham Power & Lenny Harper with the Warren Case. Could you supply links to these as you use this in your argument.
My own personal opinion is that you have a problem with Stuart and like so many prepared to chuck away all proper thought process on the issues because of this.
You know what and this is the honest truth. I have more run-ins and fall outs with Stuart than I care to mention. There is one thing that keeps the fight on the road and that's the evidence.
No one is asking for a Strike Out from this side of the fence.
Could I ask what news source you are using to form your opinion. From my time sitting in court I know there are two versions.
To those who asked, I followed the case online. I wasn't interested enough to be there in person, but a blog, that gets a much lower quality of comment than this one, reposted large chunks of the official court transcription.
Rico: My point is that guilt or innocence of a crime is independent of whether the alleged perpetrator has been the victim of any separate crimes by others. If those other should be policemen investigating the first party, that muddies the water, but as a matter of logic and moral philosophy, it cannot purge or annul the original guilt. I lightly described Power and Harper as your pals as you have been heavily involved in defending their reputation. They were in charge of the SOJP at the time of the Warren case, and the buck theoretically stops with them, even if they were too senior to be doing the detective work in person.
"My point is that guilt or innocence of a crime is independent of whether the alleged perpetrator has been the victim of any separate crimes by other"
Really? Does that work in the real world? I know you cant be referring to Syvret with that comment. The connection with the search and find police raid has a lot to do with so many of the other issues. Planning Corruption? Has everyone forgotten about that November 2008 and what do we have apart from nothing lol Leaked documents from LH or GP - Nurse M? Those cops weren't looking for fly fishing by J.R Hartley no they weren't. You keep supporting the Police State it's not for me.
Stuart can be a total idiot at times but that doesn't make him or his evidence wrong.
Even Chapman in his report told TLS to defend his staff and put up but what does he do.
STRIKE -OUT
The Evidence is damning thats why they want the Committee of Enquiry
STRIKED - OUT
Think about it. It will all come out in the 'COE;. Decades and Decades of Abuse and no one said or did a thing. Police, Social Services, The Media , Civil Servants etc etc
Think about it. I think it's obvious. They know SS isn't going away. Their big deterrent was prison well he will be out with the t-shirt soon. He knows this isn't a sprint, like we all do ,this is about the hard miles. The COE is coming down the tracks like a ghost trains. Blanche Pierre is enough to vindicate Syvret of so much, they know it he knows it and anyone who has bothered to take a good hard look at the evidence knows it.
It would be helpful to see everyone in Jersey get behind a leader all could agree upon, but why should that mean denigrating Stuart Syvret's work? He is not stopping any other effort to clean up jersey politics or bring justice to abuse survivors.
Jersey can use all the self-sacrificing and honest progressive leaders or followers it can recruit from within its numbers, but whether an actual leader of official groups or not, Stuart is Jersey's currently best known and most powerful international symbol of dissidence. He has a chance of succeeding in court and in the world media on an international scale because outside of Jersey his "crazy" actions make a whole lot more sense to activists.
For example, his decision to leave the island for UK exile, and his refusal to perform service work when he was improperly tried, are seen as appropriate civil disobedience by progressive groups in other countries, and he was probably well advised to consider those options by outside lawyers and pro-democracy groups who do support his cause. His long term goals involve international intervention.
Yes, he has trouble working well with others and can be wrong headed. He is imperfect and he holds grudges, but he has hurt himself and others only in his relentless larger fight for the greater good. He's also a far more impassioned and intelligent man than most, and for better or worse he is truly stubborn enough to see this strategic effort through. Because he is admittedly so polarizing, the undeniable effort he has made and is still trying to make, becomes diminished and even threatened by those who claim similar political goals yet display such notable fervor for tearing him down.
By all means, find all the sane and pleasantly inclusive leaders you can, but don't try to retaliate against Syvret for real or perceived mistakes especially when he is still at the international forefront of advocacy for a more democratic Jersey. The more detached you become from all the local personal egos involved, the more important Stuart Syvret's efforts appear. Wouldn't it be far better to invest all your words, time and effort into supporting better causes than in criticism of any non-establishment dissident? Do you imagine that tearing Stuart Syvret apart will somehow bring about a charismatic and perfect leader to fill that vacuum? Does it logically bring about a greater common good?
It did take Syvret rather a long time to build up the courage to publish the police report of nurse M. I'm sorry but I still believe he held this back until it suited his agenda. And why did he forget that phone call he made to Barry Faudemere( investigating officer ) ?
The main point is that whether or not Rico has defended the child abuse inquiry under Power and Harper, that does not and should not mean he is claiming they are perfect. Rico is not endorsing their personal world views, their religions, or even their role in the Warren case. It should not have to be a zero sum game for any investigative journalist. Rico points out the official statements, evidence, and logic involved in the abuse investigation, facts which happen to come down hard in favor of Power and Harper. Dissecting each man personally before supporting what he clearly does right is ridiculous and counter-productive like so much of Jersey politics.
For years and years, Syvret was on your side in the sense that he voted in the States in much the same way as the JDA & friends would vote. Many people thought he was essentially good at what he did, esp. for the envir + the 99% (more like 85% in Jersey).
Correct me if I'm wrong about the date but from from 2005 election campaign onwards (?), Stuart began slipping in your view (and others have said the same). Ok, so you were abit annoyed when in 2005, he turned down your offer to lead the JDA (is that correct?). And from then on, he went further down hill in your book. The same era when whistle blowers began to get in touch with him. The same era when victims began to get in touch with him, often at night. When abuse victims open up, its not a quick or easy conversation. And while he alone he kept their secrets, he also had one of his own.... which was was dropped. And when he tries to find out more, he, the Minister for Health, gets consistently blocked. And this is all before it comes out.
Now, I know he isn't Superman or Jesus, but really. Could you or anyone take on that? If I took on 1/2 of it I'd be really really really stressed out by now....... and my family, friends and collegues would be in the firing line (human nature) and either still supportive of me or avoiding me, annoyed with me ....yes, knowing that I was being out of character..... yes, and wondering what was wrong...yes. So when the big day comes and it all came out, then because my family, friends and most work collegues are good people, they'd suddenly appreciate the cause of the stress and rally round and offer their help.
Stuart was the most popluar poltician ever (at that time) but to save their souls, nobody in public office was brave enough to step forward and stand up to the olis with him. That failure was not of his doing, it was because of THE FEAR. Our fear to stand up and be counted is appaulingly bad but understandable considering where we live. Now surely we (non olis) need to reconcile over SS and move forward for the 'betterment' of Jersey and 85% of her people. That doesnt necessarily mean 'as one party' but for the greater good. But just suppose it got better than that and we grouped and wanted a leader. Who would you nominate?
The biggest mistake Syvret made was by following the crack pot news headlines of 2008 like they were real. He also only ever used this story as an excuse to let out grudges against others and take a 6 month holiday in London that Ben Shenton described at the time as ridiculous. Abuse survivors could have well found somebody better to represent them instead of a perpetual attention seeking liar like Syvret.
Why the focus on how Stuart held back - or didn't - on the Nurse M story? Nobody else made the public aware of the prematurely closed murder investigation. Stuart did leak the story and he is paying the entire price, alone, even as you squabble. What is wrong with you people? Are you looking for a political god?
Yes, Stuart cared so much about the safety of the public that he decided to sit on the story of a 'rogue killer nurse' for years. Obviously he's all about the caring for the public.
If you believe that, you're a bigger mug than he is.
[He also only ever used this story as an excuse to let out grudges against others and take a 6 month holiday in London that Ben Shenton described at the time as ridiculous.]
I bet in the next few years, history will prove that 'ridiculous' is a description best used alongside the name Shenton!
Here's the real deal: Jersey can't move forward when this much of the conversation is focused on what Stuart may or may not have done wrong, when there is no apparent outrage against the dozens of people responsible for permitting the nurse to go about his merry way. Same goes for child abusers and their protectors, on an exponentially greater scale.
Those who are hopelessly in love with criticizing and dividing other progressives will always prevent meaningful change. Do they carry an obsessive character trait which demands constant venting? Or is it a deliberate wish to continually divide those who have the best intentions? Could it be that they are not actually on the side of justice and good governance?
Outcomes, people, outcomes. The level of criticism against the wrong people is destroying Jersey as surely as any enemy could.
Stuart released the report after sitting on it for years because , sorry to say but he was probably on the sauce , his life was in tatters as C.had thrown him out. Don't forget he was living elsewhere before running off to London. Manipulating this report to suit his own agenda.
Ask yourself why you are focusing on your personal opinion of Stuart and ignoring the matters of real importance. This is about political influence to improperly drop a serial murder investigation.
This is no different from focusing on what was spent by Lenny Harper in that London Indian restaurant instead of addressing the decades of state sponsored paedophilia, media complicity and police cover up.
Are you hoping to see the conversation diverted before it reverts to something meaningful, but perhaps more frightening to you?
I can't see any trolling here, just expressions of two contrasting viewpoints, that possibly may occasionally make a reader rethink and change their mind about whom they agree with. which is the kind of blog I want to run. Pity this is the only subject I can get this kind of response with, though.
I agree Ugh, why is it on most of the local blogs if you have a different view point to that of the moderator you are acused of being a Troll or worse a pedophile or a pedophile protector . My way or the highway basically and that's just the mentality of Syvret.
Perhaps the reason other blogs are tired of hosting disagreements like this is because so much more is at stake that an outlet for irrelevant carping. If meaningless argument is only wearing down any progress, and diverting attention from what matters more, it just sucks the energy out of the larger effort. If the goal is to move Jersey forward, what does it matter how long someone delayed in publishing something which no one else would have? He published it. He's in prison. You are stuck on why he delayed this action. How ridiculous is that? The arguments here are illogical unless the goal is to help democracy in Jersey remain mired in extreme dysfunction for the purpose of the inarguable right to engage in this extremely petty entertainment.
"But of course there are all different kinds of freedom, and the kind that is most precious you will not hear much talked about in the great outside world of winning and achieving and displaying. The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. That is real freedom. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default-setting, the "rat race" -- the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing" - David Foster Wallace
We shall not accept comments that are offensive in language or content, libellous, irrelevant or deranged. We have no means of editing comments -it is all or nothing. So, if there is any of your comment we can't use, we can't use any of it.
I think we need to move away from Syvret and Ian Evans should pay his taxes like everyone else has to. Until this man can see that if we all gave up paying tax which would cause anarchy, I cannot take him seriously.
ReplyDeleteI asked him a question as to whether he had alternative arrangements in place for his old age as at some point he will need the services of our hospital or perhaps our residential homes and as a non tax payer does he really have the right to these benefits.
He didn't reply.
"Ian Evans is seeking support for a petition to the UK Parliament about Stuart Syvret's imprisonment. I think he is bang to rights,"
ReplyDeleteWho is bang to rights and why?
Since 2008 the JDA should have been backing Syvret or at least supporting him on the sidelines.
ReplyDeleteThe JDA team were supported by the Joseph Rowntree Organisation. Can you tell me what good the JDA can claim to have done and what Syvret has done wrong?
Please post this with an answer to my question, thank you.
Yes he did
ReplyDeleteOn the contrary I believe all people would pay a certain amount of tax. The richest people in the world basically decide how much tax they are going to pay so why should this right not be extended to the poorer members of society who actually need the money more?
ReplyDeleteThe question is how much tax do you think is reasonable?
Seeing what the government of Jersey does with it I would say that most people think that what they steal from us is most unreasonable.
Sorry,but have I missed something here.Why would someone ask these questions?I am not surprised that he did'nt reply.If Social Security are paying him benefits,then yes he is entitled to them.Why would he also have to put in place alternative arrangements for his long term care?.At the end of the day there are thousands of people who are claiming benefits for whatever reason and I trust Social Security to distribute as neccessary.camelia
ReplyDeleteAnonymous #2:
ReplyDeleteSyvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court.
Anonymous #3:
Syvret not only wouldn't work with the JDA but bitterly opposed it. To your questions; the JDA did not achieve much at all, which made leaving, when Unite bought it, an easy call. Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels, an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses, dereliction of duty and doing more harm and disruption to the progressive side of Jersey politics in practice than he did to the conservatives.
"Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels, an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses"
ReplyDeleteHow was he caught again?
rs
"Syvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court."
ReplyDeleteMaybe so, but what if the court itself (and the entire corrupt local legal system) is guilty of contempt of fairness and justice?
Rico:
ReplyDeleteBy the same kind of ruthless, unscrupulous police work your pals Graham and Lennie nailed Curtis Warren with. And yes, I do agree some cops have a case to answer regarding their own parts in the Syvret affair.
Anonymous #5:
An intriguing point. We can all think of examples of Jersey courts dispensing the finest justice money can buy. However, defendants are too compromised themselves to make that judgement on the court and thus excuse themselves from its jurisdiction. Civilisation as we know it could not function if they could.
A petition to get Syvret released is not only silly but doomed for failure before it even started. When are his remaining supporters going to face the fact that he is no longer a States Member after failing to get elected twice and he is guilty of Contempt of Court? Not forgetting his attitude towards the Community Service order which was just plain crazy. Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread as the saying goes.
ReplyDelete[Anonymous #2:
ReplyDeleteSyvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court.]
You obviously haven't read the John Hemming petition, the issue is not Stuart's contempt of court, it is dealing with the fundamental issue that could force others to do the act in the same manner as Stuart.
[an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses]
ReplyDeleteOh how I laughed, you clearly do not understand much about a person's legal rights!!
Hmm wasn't the JDA infiltrated by an undermining element, which is why it found it impossible to act as some knew it should!!
ReplyDeleteAll dissidents in Jersey are dissected into minute pieces and tarred and feathered by each other until none have remaining strength or credibility to move forward. Some are adamant about working solely within the system, others advocate a Gandhi approach to civil disobedience, and then there are unions...
ReplyDeleteIf one individual blogger has allied with others whom you personally disagree with, should his important positive efforts on your tiny island be impeached?
In a larger world, these dissidents and progressives would never waste their time fighting each other over what is mostly petty and egotistical squabbling. The oligarchy must enjoy this immensely. In the meantime, there is no political outrage over the warrantless arrest, search and seizure of a politician's constituent materials because he didn't make nice with the others. There are such shocking issues at state in Jersey, and principle must begin to trump personality.
Leigh
Looks like you're letting personal feelings trump logic.
ReplyDeleteEverything I've read from Stuart makes sense, I understand his motives and tactics, and it doesn't appear to be too difficult to understand. What I can't fathom is why other people have trouble understanding.
Its time the dissenting in Jersey united together. If only we could agree to differ on Syvret and unite on everything else.
ReplyDeleteThe problem of course, is that those dissenters who didn't support Syvret (esp. those with political support and those affiliated to non-oligarch political groups) should have been more intelligent. Back in 2008 this was our moment(us being victims and ordinary people), and sadly Stuart and all the ordinary folk and especially the abused and oppressed folk..... were very badly let down..... very badly indeed.
At the time, Stuart was working under great pressure, meeting people after dark, reading volumes of material, running the biggest States Dept against a team of plotting civil servants who should have been supporting him, denying him access to dept. records, changing records, holding secret meetings to protect their job / reputation and then walking off with golden handshakes. If you don't side with Syvret, then you side with them and their mates.
Here's a simple one. Did you ever vote Syvret?
Did you support his stance on things such as toxic ash or LLP? How come you turned your back when he was doing something he understood about so much more than you? Have you ever thought he may be right? Even if you think he was wrong when it came to 2008 and child abuse, would you not be doing your fellow dissidents more of a favour by not speaking out against him and standing to vote against him? Derrrrr!
A week is a long time in politics but thanks to people like Rico, Lenny, etc. the Syvret thing is being kept alive. More and more will grasp it eventually. Stuart is a man of principle. When those who turned away, turn back again, then we can unite at last.
As I know a number of people who are taking action against Syvret for what they say as writing lies about them it is impossible to get behind him or any other blogger that shows support for him still. If things are not true then they are flawed and he hasn't behaved normal for a long time anyhow.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous #9:
ReplyDeleteI don't know about being infiltrated. There were about 8 people in from the start or soon after who did almost all the work, and hundreds of people who paid their subs, then sat back and left us to it. I thought we were runing it rather than infiltrating it.
there is some truth in the complaints about the fragmented opposition in Jersey. However, there is not a single alternative to unite behind. Red is not the only not-dark-blue colour, however much reds would like to bounce greens, yellows and pale blues into being their troops. And Syvret certainly is not the leader to unite us all.
ReplyDeleteIt is not necessary to unite behind Stuart as a leader. It is necessary for other progressives to avoid piling on like dogs when he is down. The oligarchy is only too glad to do that without all the extra help, and the constant obsession with whether or not an individual should agree with Stuart's every tactic only diminishes the effectiveness of his absolutely extraordinary efforts.
ReplyDeleteWhy not pick your battles more selectively, and in line with loftier goals?
Stuart is likelier to achieve outside support for democratic reforms than anyone else. He is relentless in his pursuit of justice for the abuse survivors, and has almost a half million site visitors to his blog. We are from all around the globe and we make contacts on his behalf. Only someone as purpose driven and uncompromising as Stuart could accomplish so much. Such a strong personality will always be paired with a difficult nature but should his flaws be an obsession of other progressives, when it's really a destructive clash of egos? Why should Stuart be responsible for also making himself agreeably sweet to all, or for addressing the leadership vacuum? Or selecting only socially acceptable forms of civil disobedience, much less Jersey's absence of political party affiliation?
Just because he is not always an agreeable person, it would be too much to ask his fellow progressives to support him. But that does not mean they should join the anti-democratic forces in attacking him, because a democratic Jersey has nothing to gain and so much more to lose if he fails.
But Syvret has been the most popular leader and father of the house- (outdated expression IMO) So he has the credentials to be a popular long term leader. And perhaps if he had been supported when he was bombarded with all that was going on, then, more likely, things would have been alot lot better for the abuse victims. After all, if the AG hadn't sat on the cases, if investigations into bones and findings were allowed to be concluded, if the truth was attained, then justice would be done and be seen to being done. Instead the victims have been re-vitimised by the state ....again. (very common in abuse literature, attrition rates on rape,etc. etc. )
ReplyDeleteStuart was in a good position to help, and look what they did to him. Put down his Christmas speech, turf him out, give him a hard time, ransack his stuff (without a warrent)and so on. Now how would you pick yourself up from all that? OK so he may have named a few names, (those of the civil service for their shoddy work, not suspects) but would you be perfect under such strain? Probably not. Are you capable of digesting all the literature he does? Do you write/ speak in public so well? Have your predictions been as accurate?
All said and done, Stuart is a long shot above what has ever been around in my 25+ years adult time in Jersey.
Im naturally assuming you are not pro-oli. Bailhache only got more votes than SS record because the established family networks were called in and population has gone up. His agenda is not good for ordinary folk.
Then there is the media who mis represent the non oli people...... time and time again. Have you read Treasure Islands? There is a pattern of gvt. behavior in oli states.......its oppressive. Stuart was anti all that.
Really, Ug, don't you get it? Please stop being so anti-Stuart because he represented people. people whose lives have been screwed up by the authorities who were supposed to care for them. He may not have wished to join the JDA, so what, the voting pattern of Stu + the JDA is virtually the same so what did you have to loose? .......The big picture.
It is a pity that IsThisJersey have deleted the thread in which Syvret declared war on the JDA at a time when it still had enough momentum to have been a coordinating force for the non-olis. It is really hard to see someone making spiteful and malicious attacks on a project you are working hard for as a hero of your own side.
ReplyDeleteStuart only has his own agenda at heart.
ReplyDeleteHe used the report about nurse M only when it suited him. That report was in his possession and he had spoken to the head of the original police investigation a few years before its release on his blog. Although he denied or should I say he didn't recall that conversation .
The JDA was never going to change anything, get real! Ask yourself why Stuart 'attacked' the JDA - is there any chance you could understand his position?
ReplyDeleteNo matter how much you try and excuse Stuart's behaviour in recent years, or ask others to overlook his shortcomings, he unfortunately has a history of not being able to work with others, and being unable to accept others views that do not tally exactly with his own.
ReplyDeleteYou may be looking for a leader to hang your hat on, but I don't think Stuart, whatever his positive attributes, is that man, as he would not be able to help himself alienating, or antagonising, others.
He may well have been the most popular politician in days gone by, however his showing at the last election proved that his behaviour in recent years has cost him his reputation in the eyes of the general public.
Of course, your message is demonstrative of the fact that, amongst others, you are willing to overlook whatever he says, does, or has done in recent years because of his longer term achievements, or because you choose to interpret his behaviour as indicative of his strident resistance to ‘the system’ in Jersey, and that obviously is your choice. As the voting public have demonstrated however, you appear to be in a shrinking minority.
Whatever his attributes, his antagonistic, argumentative, insulting, and most recently, simply baffling, ways mean that he no longer enjoys sufficient support to achieve anything in our Government, or as the Totem of the progressive movement.
I’m sorry, but recent months seem to prove that there are not enough people who feel the way you do, and because of this, he is yesterday’s man ,and the sooner certain people realise this, the sooner they can throw their weight behind another more suitable candidate to take the progressive cause forward in this island.
"He used the report about nurse M only when it suited him."
ReplyDeleteRubbish. He knew exactly how much trouble he'd be in if he published it, and simply couldn't face it until he had no other option and nothing much to lose. It took courage to do that, and I for one don't blame him if it took a while to build up to it.
What I get from reading these comments is that the name Syvret is so polarized that very few are looking at what is really going on. Mr Ugh, have you been sitting in the Royal or Magistrate court of Jersey listning to the facts or evidence first hand? If not, how can you form an opinion of what is really going on. Is one gleaning your information from the local media? Was not Syvret's human rights violated as soon as the police entered his partners house? Do Human Rights only belong to some? Are you saying the police can kick your front door in tomorrow with no warrent search the house find nothing then take you to court on something they only found by kicking your front door down and weren't even searching for? Are you saying that's ok for Syvret and everyone else or are you saying it's ok for Syvret and no one else? No illegal raid no court case. What came first the Chicken or the egg or was it the human before the right? If anyone has a problem with what Syvret has published then i'm sure they will have him in court soon and disprove his claims. The trick of hiding the real facts behind the name are gone...
ReplyDelete"the sooner they can throw their weight behind another more suitable candidate to take the progressive cause forward in this island."
ReplyDeleteErr....Like Who?
Well he has done more for the abuse victims than ANY other politician, he's more environmentally aware than any other politician EVER and he's done more for the 99% than any other politician. And he is braver than any other too.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I am more able than you to forgive any slip up he's made but then I also see the COCK UPS that the olis have made and I think his errors pale into insignificance. Regrettably those who have abandoned him have let alot of people down.
Unless you lot can be a little more forgiving towards him and us lot forgive you, there will always be a divided opposition in Jersey and that's just the way the oli like it. Aren't you clever.
You Said;
ReplyDelete"Syvret is bang to rights for blatant and deliberate contempt of court"
I said;
How did he become to be in court was it a Police Raid?
You said;
"Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels"
Such a shame TLS went for the Strike out option don't you think? Everyone could have had their say under oath with all the evidence on show. TLS wanted a strike out. TLS and his COM tried to do the same with the Committee of Enquiry again when all the evidence and testimony can come out - oh but no strike out it is.
"Syvret's wrongs include various reckless or malicious libels, an undignified and downright criminal response to being caught committing minor technical offenses"
How was he caught again?
You said
Rico:
"By the same kind of ruthless, unscrupulous police work your pals Graham and Lennie nailed Curtis Warren with. And yes, I do agree some cops have a case to answer regarding their own parts in the Syvret affair."
You see I don't get what your saying.
You are saying that the police work was ruthless & unscrupulous yet that's ok because it's Syvret and you don't like him. Again, Curtis Warren, even if a nasty piece of work must also have rights, YES?
You let yourself down a little with the childish remark about referring to Lenny and Graham as pals of mine. I have not seen or read one document that has put Graham Power & Lenny Harper with the Warren Case. Could you supply links to these as you use this in your argument.
My own personal opinion is that you have a problem with Stuart and like so many prepared to chuck away all proper thought process on the issues because of this.
You know what and this is the honest truth. I have more run-ins and fall outs with Stuart than I care to mention. There is one thing that keeps the fight on the road and that's the evidence.
No one is asking for a Strike Out from this side of the fence.
Could I ask what news source you are using to form your opinion. From my time sitting in court I know there are two versions.
rs
To those who asked, I followed the case online. I wasn't interested enough to be there in person, but a blog, that gets a much lower quality of comment than this one, reposted large chunks of the official court transcription.
ReplyDeleteRico:
My point is that guilt or innocence of a crime is independent of whether the alleged perpetrator has been the victim of any separate crimes by others. If those other should be policemen investigating the first party, that muddies the water, but as a matter of logic and moral philosophy, it cannot purge or annul the original guilt.
I lightly described Power and Harper as your pals as you have been heavily involved in defending their reputation. They were in charge of the SOJP at the time of the Warren case, and the buck theoretically stops with them, even if they were too senior to be doing the detective work in person.
"My point is that guilt or innocence of a crime is independent of whether the alleged perpetrator has been the victim of any separate crimes by other"
ReplyDeleteReally? Does that work in the real world? I know you cant be referring to Syvret with that comment. The connection with the search and find police raid has a lot to do with so many of the other issues. Planning Corruption? Has everyone forgotten about that November 2008 and what do we have apart from nothing lol Leaked documents from LH or GP - Nurse M? Those cops weren't looking for fly fishing by J.R Hartley no they weren't. You keep supporting the Police State it's not for me.
Stuart can be a total idiot at times but that doesn't make him or his evidence wrong.
Even Chapman in his report told TLS to defend his staff and put up but what does he do.
STRIKE -OUT
The Evidence is damning thats why they want the Committee of Enquiry
STRIKED - OUT
Think about it. It will all come out in the 'COE;. Decades and Decades of Abuse and no one said or did a thing. Police, Social Services, The Media , Civil Servants etc etc
Think about it. I think it's obvious. They know SS isn't going away. Their big deterrent was prison well he will be out with the t-shirt soon. He knows this isn't a sprint, like we all do ,this is about the hard miles. The COE is coming down the tracks like a ghost trains. Blanche Pierre is enough to vindicate Syvret of so much, they know it he knows it and anyone who has bothered to take a good hard look at the evidence knows it.
"What came first the Chicken or the egg"
rs
It would be helpful to see everyone in Jersey get behind a leader all could agree upon, but why should that mean denigrating Stuart Syvret's work? He is not stopping any other effort to clean up jersey politics or bring justice to abuse survivors.
ReplyDeleteJersey can use all the self-sacrificing and honest progressive leaders or followers it can recruit from within its numbers, but whether an actual leader of official groups or not, Stuart is Jersey's currently best known and most powerful international symbol of dissidence. He has a chance of succeeding in court and in the world media on an international scale because outside of Jersey his "crazy" actions make a whole lot more sense to activists.
For example, his decision to leave the island for UK exile, and his refusal to perform service work when he was improperly tried, are seen as appropriate civil disobedience by progressive groups in other countries, and he was probably well advised to consider those options by outside lawyers and pro-democracy groups who do support his cause. His long term goals involve international intervention.
Yes, he has trouble working well with others and can be wrong headed. He is imperfect and he holds grudges, but he has hurt himself and others only in his relentless larger fight for the greater good. He's also a far more impassioned and intelligent man than most, and for better or worse he is truly stubborn enough to see this strategic effort through. Because he is admittedly so polarizing, the undeniable effort he has made and is still trying to make, becomes diminished and even threatened by those who claim similar political goals yet display such notable fervor for tearing him down.
By all means, find all the sane and pleasantly inclusive leaders you can, but don't try to retaliate against Syvret for real or perceived mistakes especially when he is still at the international forefront of advocacy for a more democratic Jersey. The more detached you become from all the local personal egos involved, the more important Stuart Syvret's efforts appear. Wouldn't it be far better to invest all your words, time and effort into supporting better causes than in criticism of any non-establishment dissident? Do you imagine that tearing Stuart Syvret apart will somehow bring about a charismatic and perfect leader to fill that vacuum? Does it logically bring about a greater common good?
It did take Syvret rather a long time to build up the courage to publish the police report of nurse M.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but I still believe he held this back until it suited his agenda. And why did he forget that phone call he made to Barry Faudemere( investigating officer ) ?
The main point is that whether or not Rico has defended the child abuse inquiry under Power and Harper, that does not and should not mean he is claiming they are perfect. Rico is not endorsing their personal world views, their religions, or even their role in the Warren case. It should not have to be a zero sum game for any investigative journalist. Rico points out the official statements, evidence, and logic involved in the abuse investigation, facts which happen to come down hard in favor of Power and Harper. Dissecting each man personally before supporting what he clearly does right is ridiculous and counter-productive like so much of Jersey politics.
ReplyDeleteUg,
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you look at the overall picture?
For years and years, Syvret was on your side in the sense that he voted in the States in much the same way as the JDA & friends would vote. Many people thought he was essentially good at what he did, esp. for the envir + the 99% (more like 85% in Jersey).
Correct me if I'm wrong about the date but from from 2005 election campaign onwards (?), Stuart began slipping in your view (and others have said the same).
Ok, so you were abit annoyed when in 2005, he turned down your offer to lead the JDA (is that correct?). And from then on, he went further down hill in your book.
The same era when whistle blowers began to get in touch with him. The same era when victims began to get in touch with him, often at night. When abuse victims open up, its not a quick or easy conversation. And while he alone he kept their secrets, he also had one of his own.... which was was dropped. And when he tries to find out more, he, the Minister for Health, gets consistently blocked. And this is all before it comes out.
Now, I know he isn't Superman or Jesus, but really.
Could you or anyone take on that? If I took on 1/2 of it I'd be really really really stressed out by now....... and my family, friends and collegues would be in the firing line (human nature) and either still supportive of me or avoiding me, annoyed with me ....yes, knowing that I was being out of character..... yes, and wondering what was wrong...yes. So when the big day comes and it all came out, then because my family, friends and most work collegues are good people, they'd suddenly appreciate the cause of the stress and rally round and offer their help.
Stuart was the most popluar poltician ever (at that time) but to save their souls, nobody in public office was brave enough to step forward and stand up to the olis with him. That failure was not of his doing, it was because of THE FEAR. Our fear to stand up and be counted is appaulingly bad but understandable considering where we live. Now surely we (non olis) need to reconcile over SS and move forward for the 'betterment' of Jersey and 85% of her people. That doesnt necessarily mean 'as one party' but for the greater good.
But just suppose it got better than that and we grouped and wanted a leader. Who would you nominate?
The biggest mistake Syvret made was by following the crack pot news headlines of 2008 like they were real. He also only ever used this story as an excuse to let out grudges against others and take a 6 month holiday in London that Ben Shenton described at the time as ridiculous. Abuse survivors could have well found somebody better to represent them instead of a perpetual attention seeking liar like Syvret.
ReplyDeleteWhy the focus on how Stuart held back - or didn't - on the Nurse M story? Nobody else made the public aware of the prematurely closed murder investigation. Stuart did leak the story and he is paying the entire price, alone, even as you squabble. What is wrong with you people? Are you looking for a political god?
ReplyDeleteYes, Stuart cared so much about the safety of the public that he decided to sit on the story of a 'rogue killer nurse' for years. Obviously he's all about the caring for the public.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe that, you're a bigger mug than he is.
[He also only ever used this story as an excuse to let out grudges against others and take a 6 month holiday in London that Ben Shenton described at the time as ridiculous.]
ReplyDeleteI bet in the next few years, history will prove that 'ridiculous' is a description best used alongside the name Shenton!
Here's the real deal: Jersey can't move forward when this much of the conversation is focused on what Stuart may or may not have done wrong, when there is no apparent outrage against the dozens of people responsible for permitting the nurse to go about his merry way. Same goes for child abusers and their protectors, on an exponentially greater scale.
ReplyDeleteThose who are hopelessly in love with criticizing and dividing other progressives will always prevent meaningful change. Do they carry an obsessive character trait which demands constant venting? Or is it a deliberate wish to continually divide those who have the best intentions? Could it be that they are not actually on the side of justice and good governance?
Outcomes, people, outcomes. The level of criticism against the wrong people is destroying Jersey as surely as any enemy could.
Stuart released the report after sitting on it for years because , sorry to say but he was probably on the sauce , his life was in tatters as C.had thrown him out. Don't forget he was living elsewhere before running off to London.
ReplyDeleteManipulating this report to suit his own agenda.
Ask yourself why you are focusing on your personal opinion of Stuart and ignoring the matters of real importance. This is about political influence to improperly drop a serial murder investigation.
ReplyDeleteThis is no different from focusing on what was spent by Lenny Harper in that London Indian restaurant instead of addressing the decades of state sponsored paedophilia, media complicity and police cover up.
Are you hoping to see the conversation diverted before it reverts to something meaningful, but perhaps more frightening to you?
Methinks you have a troll in wolfs clothing trying to divert the sheep.
ReplyDeleteI must admit it does seem rather strange that Mr Syvret new about this nurse for quite a few years before he did anything about it.
ReplyDeleteI can't see any trolling here, just expressions of two contrasting viewpoints, that possibly may occasionally make a reader rethink and change their mind about whom they agree with. which is the kind of blog I want to run. Pity this is the only subject I can get this kind of response with, though.
ReplyDeleteI agree Ugh, why is it on most of the local blogs if you have a different view point to that of the moderator you are acused of being a Troll or worse a pedophile or a pedophile protector .
ReplyDeleteMy way or the highway basically and that's just the mentality of Syvret.
Stuart who?
ReplyDeleteWhy waste anymore time on one of Jersey's biggest Muppets?
Perhaps the reason other blogs are tired of hosting disagreements like this is because so much more is at stake that an outlet for irrelevant carping. If meaningless argument is only wearing down any progress, and diverting attention from what matters more, it just sucks the energy out of the larger effort. If the goal is to move Jersey forward, what does it matter how long someone delayed in publishing something which no one else would have? He published it. He's in prison. You are stuck on why he delayed this action. How ridiculous is that? The arguments here are illogical unless the goal is to help democracy in Jersey remain mired in extreme dysfunction for the purpose of the inarguable right to engage in this extremely petty entertainment.
ReplyDeleteStuart who?
ReplyDelete"Why waste anymore time on one of Jersey's biggest Muppets?"
Why waste the time in leaving the comment
There are some excellent comments on this thread
rs
"But of course there are all different kinds of freedom, and the kind that is most precious you will not hear much talked about in the great outside world of winning and achieving and displaying. The really important kind of freedom involves attention, and awareness, and discipline, and effort, and being able truly to care about other people and to sacrifice for them, over and over, in myriad petty little unsexy ways, every day. That is real freedom. The alternative is unconsciousness, the default-setting, the "rat race" -- the constant gnawing sense of having had and lost some infinite thing" - David Foster Wallace
ReplyDelete