Report and pictures on the website.
http://www.teachers.org.uk/node/11420#a
"The Least Among Us"
9 months ago
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A great day with lots of passion and a real grasp of the issues. As a Jerseyman when I read letters like the one yesterday from the idiotic John Dix it makes my blood boil. I support our teachers whole-heartedly but if the teacher who 'taught' him is still around then he or she ought to be shot.
ReplyDeleteHi. Just to say well done to all the JDA politicians and Tadier too for being there. What happeened I wonder to the rest of the 'progressives' like Martin, Wimberley, Higgins, Vallois etc?
ReplyDeleteJust as bad, where were the hypocrits who came to the Fort Regent rally and expressed support i.e. the useless Kevin Lewis, the even more spineless Ian Le Marquand, and unless I am very much mistaken the dopey little 'plumber from St. John'. So much for standing up for hard working people, eh chaps?
Hello JDA. Maybe it is me but I can't get the link to work. Could you check this out please.
ReplyDeleteMy nut coverage is the same all year around. OK, maybe they hang lower in the summer, I'll give you that.
ReplyDeleteEm:
ReplyDeleteIt is just a web address, not a link. Copy and paste into browser address box, and it works. It was a link in the email I pasted it from, but the hypertext doesn't seem to have copied, and I don't know how to reinstate it.
The fact that no other politicians offering support is a disgrace I agree. But sadly hardly surprising. Credit to the JDA for once again nailing their colours to the right mast.
ReplyDeleteNut coverage? Were Vibert and de faye reporting this for the Sunday sport or something?
ReplyDeleteOff the thread I accept, but why is the likes of Sean Power writing on that disgusting HDLG blog set up to mock abuse victims?
ReplyDeleteIs Shona getting royalties from that new movie Kick Ass? ;)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSomething I overheard in St. Brelade. Do any of you know how it could be that the - admittedly slanted or so I hear - contents of private conversations between the Uzi and a States member are ending up being referred to on the Troll's very sick talk-to-himself blog site? Could the Uzi and the Troll be in cohoots?
ReplyDeleteThe Kick Ass comment really made me laugh as I though about Shona too when I saw the trailer. But as one of the few of the great and the good who actually has lived up to her promises since getting elected I for one would be happy if she did get some royalties. Her work ethic puts most of the muppets to shame.
ReplyDelete"mock abuse victims?"
ReplyDeleteYet to see anything remotely like that on there. Its a good blog though.
Trevor. You attended the march in support of the island's teachers and other sector workers such as the fire service and nurses. But yet you did not make a speech. Can I ask why? You are one of the few politicians who does speak very well so surely this was an opportunity missed?
ReplyDeleteYou having a laugh Anonymous, that site is just full of hate and bull****. Horrible, nasty stuff which appears to have no other point than attacking Syvret and now increasingly Hill, Tadier and the JDA. One of my friends described it quite nicely as cyber-self abuse. You can tell that it is crap by the fact that the comments are all pitched from the same angle, no contrast. Same geezer probably!
ReplyDeleteMore to the point why did tadier get to make a speech he certainly has no real track record of supporting staff.
ReplyDeleteYou are having a laugh Anon! So Syvret's blog is not full of bull****, hate, lies and attacks on people. Oh get real!
ReplyDelete"Off the thread I accept, but why is the likes of Sean Power writing on that disgusting HDLG blog set up to mock abuse victims?"
ReplyDeleteI wondered why my regulars are bringing this blog up now seeing as you are allowing attacks against it.
Get used to States members coming onto our blog, we have a post to put up by a Senator shortly. Yet more evidence of this farce.
Gazza :-x
It's okay to attack the HDLG farce blog, but you really need to consider allowing comments such as that above which refers to it being established to 'mock abuse survivors'. You can patently see that's not the case, yet you still allow that comment. Can you please explain why you would do that ?
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to note that the hard Right are getting organised again.
ReplyDeleteIn part it must be the forthcoming election for the senatorial seat of Stuart Syvret. The unspoken reason is the unprecedented degree of militancy amongst States’ workers in the face of incipient service cuts and redundancies planned by the ruling government party.
The recession is beginning to generate resistance amongst working people to defend their jobs and standard of living. A largely weak and poorly led union movement is having to respond to members’ demands for action rather than mere words. The various public sector workers met in Fort Regent a few months ago with much enthusiasm but the result organizationally was a big Zero until Teachers organised their demonstration last Saturday 24th April.
The forthcoming election will be an opportunity to put forward demands to protect the jobs and services of working people.
Expect the Trolls and assorted rootless Neo-Fascists to denigrate the Progressives inside and outside the States.
Many of the speeches from the teachers' Rally in the Opera House can be heard again on YouTube.
ReplyDeleteJust Google JERSEY TEACHERS DEMONSTRATION and listen to local and national union members.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JITkUsk2WqQ
Never thought that I would say this but the JDA will almost certainly get my vote come 2011. I am not saying you are perfect. But at least you stick to your manifesto. Maybe I'll even join!
ReplyDeleteLets imagine that you get what you want, and end up with such a majority in the house that you can pretty much get whatever propositions passed. What would you do ?
ReplyDeleteRe the HDLGFblog sub-thread:
ReplyDeleteI let the adverse comments be published in the same spirit that I let most of the anti-JDA comments go through: They are a reality check on how you are viewed from beyond your own circle, which is useful to know, if not always nice. Somebody is interpreting it as mockery and taking offence, even if I am not sensitive enough to agree with them. Some of the comments are rather unpleasant, though.
From the robust way that Gazza presents his alternative perspective, and his light hand with his own comment moderation, I didn't think he was likely to be hurt, and indeed there he is sticking up for himself a few comments back.
Personally, I find Gazza's blog an interesting counterbalance to the other evidence-based blogs on the subject, and read it with enthusiasm. It is at http://thehautdelagarennefarce.blogspot.com/
if anyone with an open mind wants food for thought.
The farce blog is written in the same way as PJ comments by Deputy Dawg, widely believed to be a Senator's son.
ReplyDeleteDavid
ReplyDeleteYour comments about the HDLG site are taking liberalism to the extreme. 'Gazza'who claims to be at a UK university but actually lives here (and has probably never been further than Green Island if his world view is anything to go by)shows himself up for what he is by the very s**** on his blog. He goes on about the JDA letting a comment through when anyone who looks at his site can see that 'his readers' just bang on and on about the same obsession. Attack Syvret. Attack Power. Attack Harper. Attack any one who supports the possibility that the most awful things happened at HDLG. Attack Hill. Hell, now he is attacking the JDAs own Trevor Pitman for no apparent reason other that I can see other than this creep doesn't like any one who does not share his personal view. At least sites like this one allow 'anti' views which shows both that comments are real and a commitment to democracy and openess to criticism, differing views etc. While I am on the subject I don't see how someone criticising the HDLG blog tripe means that they support everything on Stuart Syvret's blog. It is a jump from A to C with no B.
Dear Mr Gazza
ReplyDeletecan I say how much I used to enjoy very much your playing of the football for the Spurs. How did you indeed ever come to be now employed as a bogger on the intranet? life is very strange in its twistings and turnings is it not.
What I would be asking you very much is as you claim to have a Senator writing on your bog site as I read something written about Mr Syvret the other evening who is that Senator please? because if this is a real Senator from the States why does he hide his name? Or is it that he is just you or another pretending to be important?
Dave,
ReplyDeleteYou are naive in your editorial decision to let anti-libertarians free comment on your blog out of some sense of fair play. They would not reciprocate. I cannot agree that there is any valid “alternative perspective” or “interesting counterbalance”. It is simple vitriol and denigration of Liberals and Progressives.
Lets be clear, the Gazza blog is run by the same right wing anti child abuse deniers as organised ElectJersey2005 and PJ. They have nothing good to say about the JDA or anyone else who stands up for social justice in this island. Fighting for such principles involves considerable risk and danger, so it is surprising to see you endorsing their opinions.
As a member of the JDA how can you say that you like the “alternative perspective”? They clearly hate Trade Unions, progressives, socialists and the working classes in general. The organisers are an alliance of neo-Fascists and traditional old guard Jersey conservatives. Had you participated in the Teachers’ demonstration and Rally last Saturday, you would have noticed a heckler there who is clearly of the sort that attacks the JDA and writes right wing blogs. Unemployed, uneducated and with mental health issues, these lumpen proletarians mix self loathing and hatred into a dangerous mixture that leads to racism and violence.
Would you promote a site for the British National Party and Nick Griffen on the basis it was an “alternative perspective”? Its time to sort out whose side you are on.
A message for Trevor. I know you are probably really busy as I know all the JDA deputies work very hard, but can you please come on here and share some of your thoughts with us again. You don't seem to be writing so much the last two or three weeks which is a shame because Jersey needs those handful of politicians who can match up brains with the TF to say what they think to do so at every opportunity.
ReplyDeleteI am interested in the questions someone asked about not making a sppech at the rally as well. I would also like to know, having done a little straw poll that revealled 16 of the people I know read this site and one or two others like the JEP one, the Voice, yet only one admitted to ever posting a comment on a site, what you think about my observation.
This seems to say that a lot of people read political blogs but don't actively get involved. Now this also seems to reflect politics generally - lots of people moaning about what is wrong yet very few in comparision getting around to voting. Do you think there is some truth in this observation or am I barking up the wrong tree? Thanks.
Anonymous 2 comments back:
ReplyDeleteI said it was interesting food for thought for the open-minded. I agree with your summary of the views on offer. I stopped short of any other praise than that, because it doesn't deserve it. I find it better to read things I don't know, and opinions I disagree with, than to confine myself to being told what I already think, anyway. And you, too, seem to have read it and thought about it - didn't you like a challenging read too?
The paradox of free speech for the anti-free speech is age-old and insoluble. So I'll settle for playing my game by my rules, not theirs.
With regard to the “challenging read” I read the blog and asked my self a simple question - whose interests does it serve?
ReplyDeleteTeachers seeking to defend jobs, standard of living and public services?
Those struggling to get by on Income Support?
Those seeking political reform, democratisation and social justice in Jersey?
The answer is none of the above. It attacks them all, so lets not bother promoting such sites, giving them credibility and realise exactly what purpose they serve – to confuse and to divide.
Hello there David. Can I just echo what the posters said about such open editorial practice not being reciprocated by the owner/moderator/user of the HDLG blog. This HDLG blog IS sick. Whether I share all the JDA policy views or not I recognise that this is a serious political website of which a blog is a part. The HDLG blog is nothing more than a spewer of hate and vitriol.
ReplyDeleteIf you doubt what I am saying just check it out. If it is meant to be about the murder issue at HDLG then why - you should ask Gazza or Jon the Troll as he is known to so many - why he is now moving on to obsessively attacking the JDA but especially Trevor Pitman for no fathomable reason. The HDLG blog is not a serious website and it should be treated with the contempt it deserves as your other posters suggest.
I acknowledge that you are clearly a very tolerant, liberal person from adopting this approach but I agree with the other posters that it is a mistake. The vicious little wretch who is almost the lone commentator on the blog going by the style of the posts has enough brass neck to make comments on his blog being criticised yet trawling through the alleged posts on his own site you will not find any opposition, disagreement of his obsessive minority views at all. You get disagreement of some sort on all genuine sites unless they are run by facists I suppose so this really does highlight that such people shouldn't be given the attention they crave by engaging.
I won't be visiting it again and I won't be posting about it here or on any of the other sites I read either. Criticism over I would just add that the blog is one of the best political sites I have come across. It is a shame that more of our elected States members cannot motivate themselves to engage with the public like the JDA does.
Sorry but I forgot to add how odd that Senator Perchard, a man who made such offensive comments about the disabled gentleman on the radio recently and whined constantly about the Syvret blog, is now giving interviews to such a really vile and nasty blog. Seems like the Senator who is surely going to be an ex-Senator himself come 2011 given his record of doing nothing has somewhat double-standards.
ReplyDeleteThe HDLG Farce Blog has contributions by States Members and links to articles by professional journalists. The idea is to bring it all together. But some posters are bound to have shots at the JDA if the JDA allows attacking comments like what I am reading on here.
ReplyDeleteRe HDLGF sub-thread:
ReplyDeleteBy now, anyone who hasn't seen it will have an idea of what to expect, and needn't go there if they they aren't interested.
I think their posters were already having shots at the JDA. Allowing diverse opinions to be expressed makes this blog a better read: See who you agree with and who you don't and then have your 2d-worth, yourself.
I shall continue to read it myself for two reasons: Firstly, it draws quite different conclusions to SSB from similar evidence. A salutary reminder that the public are not being told enough to be sure what went on, and that justice is not being seen to be done anywhere along the line. And a half-chance of finding a truth I wouldn't have guessed from just reading Stuart and Neil. Secondly, all those anonymous comments are an inside view of the aggressive right-wing faction who oppose us - a window into their souls, or perhaps a manhole into their sewer. They are probably beyond talking round to a more reasonable world-view, but it seems useful to know what your enemies are saying about you amongst themselves.
I agree with David, all these blogs are worth a look in and the Farce Blog does have some interesting posts on it so I would rather be open minded.
ReplyDeleteRe Teachers Demonstation
ReplyDeleteDeputy Kevin Lewis was there(he lives next door)
with his grandson.
he also stayed by the gates to direct late arrivals
as the march left early.
To all those Anonymous posters at 14, 16, 23 and 29 - I say it again, I do wish this could be more personal! - I would firstly say sorry that I have not been writing pieces as frequesntly over the past couple of weeks or so. As one of you hits the nail right on the head - it has simply been as a result of being so busy.
ReplyDeleteI would also hope that everyone would accept that blogging, interesting and increasingly useful as it can be, must come a very long way behind doing other political work. One aspect of this that can change dramatically in terms of time demands is the key issue of constituent work.
The truth of this is that whilst you get lulls from time to time constituent work for me, as with my JDA colleagues, is more often than not very, very time consuming consistently because of the volume of people who get in touch. This includes significant numbers from other parishes. I'm not complaining about that it is just a reality that I flag up.
The past couple of weeks have been one of those times when the jump in contacts - not to mention the complexity of some of the issues - has been very high indeed. I know that Shona has been in the same boat, probably even more so than myself. So, not an excuse for not writing but an explanation. I am also finsihing off a Scrutiny report and working on a substantial proposition which I hope to get lodged within the nxt two weeks or so.
But as to some of the points these posters make. Firstly, thanks for the kind words about my speaking. It is appreciated. I know that I can get a lot better and, time permitting, hopefully I will. As for having 'TF', well, it makes me quite angry that there are so many in the States who seem wholly devoid of it. If there is one thing you surely can't be in politics it is being scared of your own shadow.Such people tend to end up as lobby fodder - as we have seen.
As to the question of why didn't I make a speech at the teachers rally last weekend it is quite simple: I wasn't asked. I would have been happy to do so but the fact is the day was really about those employees who work so hard and are being treated with such contempt by the likes of our esteemed Cheif Minister and the rest of the pals of the parasites.
It was really a day for these employees and their work representatives to make the speeches - and their were some very good ones. Geoff had aalso been asked to speak remember, so I would imagine they felt it important not to risk the wrong impression that this was just a 'JDA thing'. Hence why Montford was asked, him being the only non-JDA politician who took the time out to be there. Although as another poster points out, a good number of other States Members had pledged support.
Words I guess are, indeed, cheap. Maybe it all comes back to what Anonymous said earlier about 'Testicular Fortitude'?
As to the question from Anonymous #29 - what would we do with a majority - this is worth a post in itself and I will try to get that done over the next few days. With the JDA committed to campaigning on four particulat fronts (as per outlined in our new leaflet!) for now I will say only that this would revolve around electoral reform, sustainable population limits, protection of public services and fair taxation. But more on all of this soon!
A quick second post as the system would not let me post the amount of text in one go.
ReplyDeleteAs to the question about whether the fact that a lot of people now read political websites like these yet don't actively comment, and whether this is linked to wider political apathy, I would say this. I feel that this may be for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, for some, this may well be through fear of being identified and then criticised or even attacked. As we have seen from the comments above this must be acknowledged as a genuine concern given how some websites/blogs operate - especially if you don't happen to go along with the Establishment Party line.
Secondly, and I think this is very true for a great many, people simply just want to see what is being said; having access to a different perspective to that always angled from certain sections of the 'accredited' media.
Maybe a lack of confidence in expressing their views is also an issues for some people. I mean, just consider how many elected politicians simply sit in the States year in/year out and never say or challenge anything!
Of course, some have a lot to say to the media yet regularly vanish back to their day job as soon as roll call has taken place, which is just as bad if not worse. But more on this issue very soon!
If the number of people taking the trouble to visit political and news blogs/websites yet not actively leaving postings is linked to the wider issue of political apathy generally I am not sure. It has to be a possibility, however.
Such apathy is an issue that everyone genuinely interested in democracy - whatever their politics - must work very hard over the next 18 months to try and make some inroads in to improving. If not we will be stuck with just more of the same old lies, elitism, bad management and incompetence that has led to the problems we have now.
To this regard I can say that, for our part, the JDA has a number of initiatives that we will be making public in the not too distan future.
Kevin Lewis - there at the rally supporting teachers? Funny. No one I know saw him. Then again maybe he was just like he is in the States - invisible.
ReplyDeleteADJ... What an original name! So the HDLG hate site is all about bringing it and presumably people together. How come it contains not only the usual, bog-standard lies but attacks on progressive politicians such as "crawled out from under a rock", "does what she is told - very badly" and these are some of the polite gems. Why not be up front - the site has the same sort of approach to attacking anyone seen as an oppoent in the sort of way dregs like the BNP would use. It may not be racially motivated, though thinking about it the attack on Deputy Debbie De Sousa may very well be, but the tactics of smear and bullying are the same.
ReplyDeleteADJ. Does that stand for Annoying Dopey Jerk? You talk of the politicians on the blog. Could you please tell us then why does the alleged analysis of Stuart Syvret by a 'senator' have no name to it?
ReplyDeleteIt is not apathy. Some infamous blogsites have gone so far down the line of personal attack on people within the States that the public is bored of reading it all. Nobody gets votes from setting up a blog and calling the Government an oligarchy all the time. It may excite a handful of people and even members of the JDA but it sure as hell doesn't get even a whisper in the mainstream. So I say apathy is the wrong hypothesis.
ReplyDeleteA lively discussion is welcome. BUT! Please don't let it boil over into a flame war. I just let something through because it had a serious question attached, that was not really in order in itself, but I will start rejecting things if this turns into a slanging match.
ReplyDeleteDavid is right we don't want this site to get sucked down to the level of HDLG and a fair bit of the now Marie Celeste-like site that is Planet Jersey. The PJ site is a good example actually because ages ago you used to read some interesting arguments from Establishment and Progressives.
ReplyDeleteMost of the Progressives and to be fair most of the intelligent Establishment posters too seem to have been driven away by the Trolls out to cause trouble, leaving only a couple to post reason against the inane far-right rants of Spazacus and Deputy Dawgbreath.
Anonymous #43 is right to a point too about people just playing the endless 'oligarchy' card. But the same is even more true of the sad sacks who repeatedly try to portray the likes of the JDA and eight or nine others in the States as some kind of red menace plotting to behead the toffs.
I used to think it was only utter bampots like De faye who used to trot that kind of crap out but you only have to look at some comments on HDLG to see that it is still there amongst the more intellectually challenged. Thankfully ever increasing numbers of people realise this to be complete b******s. But I suppose that if your politics are along the lines of a Nick Griffin/Norman Tebbit cross breed then anyone who doesn't believe in forced labour camps or the poor being sent to the work house is a potential commie out to steal your family jewels.
Yay. Come along ADJ. Answer Anonymous'question. If you have one of our noble Senators on board with your blog then let us have his or her name. If you don't reply with the name I would suggest that it can only mean two possibilities. You wrote it yourself. Or it is young Mr Ozouf. Can't be Jimbo. He is too thick to use such big words
ReplyDeleteI heard on BBC Talkback today Advocate Rose Colley describe the JDA as the “The Party of Inner St Helier”. What can she mean?
ReplyDeleteDoes she reveal her disdain for the sort of people who live in inner St Helier? Is “Inner St Helier” a code word for the working classes, the unwashed, the poor, those in need of Income Support, the immigrants, the Portuguese, the Poles etc.? Is it just a reflection of privileged Jersey’s prejudice?
Should we substitute the word “Ghetto” for the words “Inner St Helier”? Bourgeois Jersey lives North of a line East-West through the island. The Country Parishes are where the wealthy live in quiet seclusion – no dirty incinerators or gas storage facilities or docks or noisy Friday night discos with alcohol fueled teenagers.
So. All we get from 'ADJ' aka Jon and a million other fake ids is a roaring silence when asked to name his pet 'Senator' who is busy writing about Stuart Syvret on the HDLG blog farce. He is even making excuses saying they can't name him because he might be bullied! Bit odd one might think when the blog farce is busy trying to bully non-Establishment politicians.
ReplyDeleteBut this can probably only mean the above posters raising the question are right. If so most would suggest either the Troll is now pretending to be a Senator or he has one of two likely Establishment politicans happy to do a 'vile blog' attack - so long as they can keep their identity in the shadows. Maybe a politician concerned at these double standards could raise a question in the States? Of additional interest, it is also a known fact that Jon was at school with his mate Phil and they are still in touch. Another good question for the States?
Somewhere else, I read a suggestion that I am writing all the anonymous comments on this blog. Not true. Nor do I believe that all the comments here and elsewhere are the work of Jon, even if the blogger who thinks that "Tom Gruchy/Wellard" is really Nick le Cornu also thinks Jon is the only smug, snide, right-wing internet user in Jersey.
ReplyDeletePhil Ozouf clocked up about 8,000 votes last time. That is reason to believe that there are plenty of people out there who could write that stuff and mean it. And there is a place for their comments here: We should have the answers to them. If not, are we really on the right side?
Hi Dave
ReplyDeleteI obviously know that you don't post anonymous comments and I fully agree that we have to be open to criticism and other perspectives. In fact as you know I welcome it.
Personally I also happen to think that the internet should be like newspapers where you have to give a veriviable name and address if you wish to comment
But what I am totally opposed to is the spreading of lies/smears about people. Which is sadly all too often the favoured tool of many 'Establishment' supporters who hide behind the shadows of the internet when it comes to attacking the JDA and others - some not even elected to government.
Not to mention a few in the States too who use a similar approach to hide behind parlimentary privilege - just consider the blatant fabrication from Philip when he claimed that Geoff had said that he 'wanted to destroy the finance industry'.
That kind of crap we shouldn't tolerate - although I guess there is the alternative argument to put it up to show how morally bankrupt, politically desperate and intellectually inadequate some people are.
A certain Jon has been in touch to disown comments on this and other blogs, and protest at being the apparent target for criticism of them. He assures me that, in the unlikely event of him posting, it will be in his own name.
ReplyDeleteNo further comments assuming Jon to be the author of anonymous or pseudonymous posts can be accepted.
Cheers David
ReplyDeleteWe will all have to go out for a drink sometime. Knock all these miss understandings on the head because like I said to you, I have better things to do then go onto the blogs and wind people up believe me!
Will the HDLG blog now be removing the highly offensive 'posts' and down right lies about JDA members? Or is this a one-way surrender?
ReplyDeleteOne way surrender? Keeping civilians out of the crossfire, that's all. I have had no negotiations with "Gazza", and as far as I am concerned he can keep his comments up as a true reflection of what sort of people his fan club are.
ReplyDeleteWe will shortly be re-looking at this as the JDA technically have a very minor influence on the subject matter of the HDLG farce. We are now knocking back more posts that are only written to annoy as they also clutter up the blog.
ReplyDelete